abolitionniste <---> bobojp
Napsal: 8.7.2024 06:46
Dear bobojp,
this might be a long letter, and you need not to read it in detail. I write it to a big extent for me, to sum up where we are, and to sketch where we might continue. But after this letter I intent to address you with a shorter toot, too.
This letter is also the initial post in the phpBB thema-thread "abolitionniste <---> bobojp" at "Náměstí Praha 3" https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewforum.php?f=1 . For this thema I also introduce the tag #tg601749156 .
I had noticed you before, mainly because of Ukraine, and I believe that we are aligned here: Ukraine must win.
But now, we have reached an agreement about the list of 265 MEPs of three political groups in the European Parliament: S&D, RE and G/EFA. I would like to record it here:
First, there was my toot:
7.7. 9:27 abolitionniste https://bagarrosphere.fr/@abolitionnist ... 0776154391 :
> @bobojp , Great! 🙂 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
>
> The more EU languages we cover the better.
>
> I propose some rules of our cooperation:
>
> 1) Each of us does a little; as little as they wish.
>
> 2) One can drop out any time withou any hard feelings.
>
> 3) Our cooperation is a little more than tooting, boosting and faving.
>
> Perhaps, you may look here, whether you may join me in that intermediate statement:
>
> https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1084#p1084
>
> These are MEPs of S&D, RE and G/EFA political groups.
>
> Ask. I explain 🙂
The toot corresponds to this post on "Náměstí Praha 3": https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1088#p1088 . And you replied:
9:47 bobojp https://theblower.au/@bobojp/112744099176653626 :
> OK. I recognised deputies from Renaissance in there (Mr. Macron’s party). I’m guessing the others are of similar background.
In which case, I can gladly support this list.
Then again me:
10:45 abolitionniste https://bagarrosphere.fr/@abolitionnist ... 9953863899 :
> @bobojp , I very happy about this agreement 🤝 🎉 🍷
>
> The European Parliament page with links to the political groups pages: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/about-pa ... cal-groups
>
> S&D : https://www.socialistsanddemocrats.eu/
>
> RE: https://www.reneweuropegroup.eu/
>
> G/EFA: https://www.greens-efa.eu/en/
>
> The names in our(!) list are based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... %932029%29 as of 2.7.
>
> I noticed there are already some additions to some of our(!) groups, we will update the list when we find better data...
And you faved this toot which I consider the final seal on our (abolitionniste+bobojp) agreement. Great! Huraah!
I intend to consolidate(?) the agreement in the next post.
Now, having this agreement, and I hope, also some understandig that we want to cooperate, we may discuss where to go further. I have no strong views about it, but I shall try to sketch some possibilities. The direction I am thinking about is the goal to extend our (abolitionniste+bobojp) list of MEPs so it contains 361 names. And this directions connects to where we entered our conversation on Saturday; and it also connect to the result of the yesterday's second round of législatives. For that result I am very happy. I celebrate. I enjoy.
On Saturday, our entry to a conversation, was my toot:
6.7. 04:39 abolitionniste https://bagarrosphere.fr/@abolitionnist ... 8608135585 :
> I'm not sure whether I understand the French enough, but this text seems relevant (to our activities?):
>
> https://theconversation.com/pourquoi-le ... che-233845
>
> If you go through the French text, I would be happy for your impressio
The toot corresponds to this post at "Náměstí Praha 3": https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1080#p1080 .
You kindly replied:
08:46 bobojp https://theblower.au/@bobojp/112738198059015866 :
> The text defines what extreme left is, in order to establish that the Nouveau Front Populaire is not extreme left, but just (normal) left.
And some conversation on that theme issued:
09:26 xChaos https://f.cz/@xChaos/112738361793089629 :
> For me, discussing what are left, radical left and extreme left positions and policies definitely makes sense.
7.6. 01:17 abolitionniste https://bagarrosphere.fr/@abolitionnist ... 3875225714 :
> For me, the words "left", "extreme", "normal" are not helpful. But, if I use them... 'left is good'.
This toot correspond to the "Náměstí Praha 3" post: https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1081#p1081
01:32 abolitionniste https://bagarrosphere.fr/@abolitionnist ... 5097729415 :
> For me, the words 'left', 'radical' and 'extreme' are not very useful. I am not happy with conceptual splitting of 'non-extreme left' and 'extreme left'. I may try 'left is good' but 'only some left is good' doesn't appeal to me.
This toot is reflected in "Náměstí Praha 3" post: https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1082#p1082 .
09:01 bobojp https://theblower.au/@bobojp/112743919759525808 :
> I agree with left is good. I do vote socialist when my assessment of the leader is positive. But I do draw a line with extreme left, which as per the definition in the submitted text is revolutionary in essence and to me aims at levelling things from and for the bottom.
10:01 xChaos https://f.cz/@xChaos/112744155979383296 :
> I see pople from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_Publique which seems to be more centre-left alternative to more radical https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_France_Insoumise
>
>I admit, that European political life is quite complex, with local parties in many countries not necessarily having straightforward counterparts in other parties (but they use EP fractions to find each other and affiliate)
>
> We, Pirates, were just accused on one Czech discussion forum (nyx.cz), that our MEPs voting is alligned with Die Linke. This is quite complex, because on the other hand, ECR voting seems to be aligned with ID member parties, and so on...
10:14 bobojp https://theblower.au/@bobojp/112744207258089251 :
> I did vote for Raphaël Glucksmann (Place Public) for the European election. He’s very strongly pro EU and pro Ukraine, and I like his ideas in general.
>
> But then they associated for the legislative elections with LFI (Melenchon) which is a shame.
10:21 bobojp https://theblower.au/@bobojp/112744233300286843 :
> Place Public is basically what is left of French Socialist Party these days.
10:27 abolitionniste https://bagarrosphere.fr/@abolitionnist ... 7519834299 :
> First, I pray for the French voters to vote today in all cases against RN (Le Pen). I don't know if there is a case of LFI (Mélenchon) candidate standing against RN candidate, but if yes, in this case, vote LFI.
10:34 abolitionniste https://bagarrosphere.fr/@abolitionnist ... 3957873419 :
> @bobojp , I understand your view.
>
> These are difficult (and emotinal?) matters.
>
> I do belive it is time for a broad and wide coalition; not for an indeological purity 🙂
>
> But, we two, you and me, let us concentrate first on where we are in alignment without much effort...
And then we had ther results of législatives.
It seems to me that we have to forget do define ourselves and our oponents in terms of left and right. That political landscape is a thing of the past. The are now more important dimensions which sould define our side(?). And I want a poistive definition. It is not enough for me to define ourselves(?) as non-RN (Le Pen). And, that, for me, also includes, thinking about whether we must / should really exclude this or that kind of left. And if yes, that perhaps we should have other definition of the excluded, a definition which doesn't contain the world 'left'. We do not exclude them, because they are left, but because something else, which they may perhaps share with RN (Le Pen).
Ok, these are only vague thoughts. I am very interested what you thing.
Yours, abolitionniste
@xChaos@mastodon.pirati.cz
#tg601749156
this might be a long letter, and you need not to read it in detail. I write it to a big extent for me, to sum up where we are, and to sketch where we might continue. But after this letter I intent to address you with a shorter toot, too.
This letter is also the initial post in the phpBB thema-thread "abolitionniste <---> bobojp" at "Náměstí Praha 3" https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewforum.php?f=1 . For this thema I also introduce the tag #tg601749156 .
I had noticed you before, mainly because of Ukraine, and I believe that we are aligned here: Ukraine must win.
But now, we have reached an agreement about the list of 265 MEPs of three political groups in the European Parliament: S&D, RE and G/EFA. I would like to record it here:
First, there was my toot:
7.7. 9:27 abolitionniste https://bagarrosphere.fr/@abolitionnist ... 0776154391 :
> @bobojp , Great! 🙂 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
>
> The more EU languages we cover the better.
>
> I propose some rules of our cooperation:
>
> 1) Each of us does a little; as little as they wish.
>
> 2) One can drop out any time withou any hard feelings.
>
> 3) Our cooperation is a little more than tooting, boosting and faving.
>
> Perhaps, you may look here, whether you may join me in that intermediate statement:
>
> https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1084#p1084
>
> These are MEPs of S&D, RE and G/EFA political groups.
>
> Ask. I explain 🙂
The toot corresponds to this post on "Náměstí Praha 3": https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1088#p1088 . And you replied:
9:47 bobojp https://theblower.au/@bobojp/112744099176653626 :
> OK. I recognised deputies from Renaissance in there (Mr. Macron’s party). I’m guessing the others are of similar background.
In which case, I can gladly support this list.
Then again me:
10:45 abolitionniste https://bagarrosphere.fr/@abolitionnist ... 9953863899 :
> @bobojp , I very happy about this agreement 🤝 🎉 🍷
>
> The European Parliament page with links to the political groups pages: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/about-pa ... cal-groups
>
> S&D : https://www.socialistsanddemocrats.eu/
>
> RE: https://www.reneweuropegroup.eu/
>
> G/EFA: https://www.greens-efa.eu/en/
>
> The names in our(!) list are based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... %932029%29 as of 2.7.
>
> I noticed there are already some additions to some of our(!) groups, we will update the list when we find better data...
And you faved this toot which I consider the final seal on our (abolitionniste+bobojp) agreement. Great! Huraah!
I intend to consolidate(?) the agreement in the next post.
Now, having this agreement, and I hope, also some understandig that we want to cooperate, we may discuss where to go further. I have no strong views about it, but I shall try to sketch some possibilities. The direction I am thinking about is the goal to extend our (abolitionniste+bobojp) list of MEPs so it contains 361 names. And this directions connects to where we entered our conversation on Saturday; and it also connect to the result of the yesterday's second round of législatives. For that result I am very happy. I celebrate. I enjoy.
On Saturday, our entry to a conversation, was my toot:
6.7. 04:39 abolitionniste https://bagarrosphere.fr/@abolitionnist ... 8608135585 :
> I'm not sure whether I understand the French enough, but this text seems relevant (to our activities?):
>
> https://theconversation.com/pourquoi-le ... che-233845
>
> If you go through the French text, I would be happy for your impressio
The toot corresponds to this post at "Náměstí Praha 3": https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1080#p1080 .
You kindly replied:
08:46 bobojp https://theblower.au/@bobojp/112738198059015866 :
> The text defines what extreme left is, in order to establish that the Nouveau Front Populaire is not extreme left, but just (normal) left.
And some conversation on that theme issued:
09:26 xChaos https://f.cz/@xChaos/112738361793089629 :
> For me, discussing what are left, radical left and extreme left positions and policies definitely makes sense.
7.6. 01:17 abolitionniste https://bagarrosphere.fr/@abolitionnist ... 3875225714 :
> For me, the words "left", "extreme", "normal" are not helpful. But, if I use them... 'left is good'.
This toot correspond to the "Náměstí Praha 3" post: https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1081#p1081
01:32 abolitionniste https://bagarrosphere.fr/@abolitionnist ... 5097729415 :
> For me, the words 'left', 'radical' and 'extreme' are not very useful. I am not happy with conceptual splitting of 'non-extreme left' and 'extreme left'. I may try 'left is good' but 'only some left is good' doesn't appeal to me.
This toot is reflected in "Náměstí Praha 3" post: https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1082#p1082 .
09:01 bobojp https://theblower.au/@bobojp/112743919759525808 :
> I agree with left is good. I do vote socialist when my assessment of the leader is positive. But I do draw a line with extreme left, which as per the definition in the submitted text is revolutionary in essence and to me aims at levelling things from and for the bottom.
10:01 xChaos https://f.cz/@xChaos/112744155979383296 :
> I see pople from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_Publique which seems to be more centre-left alternative to more radical https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_France_Insoumise
>
>I admit, that European political life is quite complex, with local parties in many countries not necessarily having straightforward counterparts in other parties (but they use EP fractions to find each other and affiliate)
>
> We, Pirates, were just accused on one Czech discussion forum (nyx.cz), that our MEPs voting is alligned with Die Linke. This is quite complex, because on the other hand, ECR voting seems to be aligned with ID member parties, and so on...
10:14 bobojp https://theblower.au/@bobojp/112744207258089251 :
> I did vote for Raphaël Glucksmann (Place Public) for the European election. He’s very strongly pro EU and pro Ukraine, and I like his ideas in general.
>
> But then they associated for the legislative elections with LFI (Melenchon) which is a shame.
10:21 bobojp https://theblower.au/@bobojp/112744233300286843 :
> Place Public is basically what is left of French Socialist Party these days.
10:27 abolitionniste https://bagarrosphere.fr/@abolitionnist ... 7519834299 :
> First, I pray for the French voters to vote today in all cases against RN (Le Pen). I don't know if there is a case of LFI (Mélenchon) candidate standing against RN candidate, but if yes, in this case, vote LFI.
10:34 abolitionniste https://bagarrosphere.fr/@abolitionnist ... 3957873419 :
> @bobojp , I understand your view.
>
> These are difficult (and emotinal?) matters.
>
> I do belive it is time for a broad and wide coalition; not for an indeological purity 🙂
>
> But, we two, you and me, let us concentrate first on where we are in alignment without much effort...
And then we had ther results of législatives.
It seems to me that we have to forget do define ourselves and our oponents in terms of left and right. That political landscape is a thing of the past. The are now more important dimensions which sould define our side(?). And I want a poistive definition. It is not enough for me to define ourselves(?) as non-RN (Le Pen). And, that, for me, also includes, thinking about whether we must / should really exclude this or that kind of left. And if yes, that perhaps we should have other definition of the excluded, a definition which doesn't contain the world 'left'. We do not exclude them, because they are left, but because something else, which they may perhaps share with RN (Le Pen).
Ok, these are only vague thoughts. I am very interested what you thing.
Yours, abolitionniste
@xChaos@mastodon.pirati.cz
#tg601749156