Trojka třetího

Propojuju s tématem-vláknem "Hybridní korespondence" 10 https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1389#p1389 #tg548170790

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https://f.cz/@xChaos/112886237604961870 :

> @abolitionniste
>
> As I already suggested: the "eco-technological transformaton" sums it all. Europe can't survive just as traditional agricultural region, dependent on import of fossil fuels from dictatorship countries and consumer electronics from China and Korea. We are no longer "colonialists" - we were thoroughly colonialized, already.
>
>This medium we use to communicate just now , ActivityPub protocol, is itself important part of this transformation. But also just a tiny part of it.
>
> There are huge myth: right wing populists focus on fearmongering, but the de-industrialization already mostly happened anyway. Left wing focus on some kind of punishing the excentric rich elites, but these elites already transform themselves or sometimes completely disappeared (or will disappear soon). The aggregated demand for mass consumption remains problem, and it is eco-technological, not social problem.

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https://mastodon.uno/@Pierrette/112887092558535735 :

> @xChaos Bravo everybody for the level of this conversation.Might I humbly point out though that being us humans,the socio-cultural DETERMINES the economical and technological in our societies? That's what is intriguing about Timoty's quest,that's a try to raise the awareness of the values that may define the goals toward which we're striving I'm sorry for now not to have a practical contribution to make yet,but I'm listening and reflecting

https://mastodon.uno/@Pierrette/112887113787572023 :

> @xChaos But to me is clear that Values are what can change our collective direction, because if we change our collective view of things then less consuming, less THINGS does not necessarily mean less quality of life, maybe the opposite. The shift has to occur in our minds

https://f.cz/@xChaos/112887116521570176 :

> @Pierrette I am sorry, but I am technician, with some general idea about natural sciences like physics. No amount of social sciences will heat my house in the winter...

https://mastodon.uno/@Pierrette/112887126135543324 :

> @xChaos ❤️ but the motivation to find solutions and the will to accept changes that are important too ( that's my cup of tea, having trained in psicology and education

https://f.cz/@xChaos/112887166915498236 :

> @Pierrette well, maybe I could use some help, because my communication skills are not very useful outside of my own community.
>
> There is huge amount of fear among Eurooean population, who are generally afraid, that the upcomming transformation is going to reduce their standard of living.
>
> I think this can be avoided, but on the other other hand, there are real challenges, real technical difficulties. It is maybe harder, than landing on the Moon in the 1960's...

@fonecokid@c.im Thank you for the boost and fav. May I take it as "yes" to my question?

@Pierrette@mastodon.uno Thank you too for the boost and fav. And for the posts. I hope I may taky it as you joining me at the quest.

@xChaos@f.cz Hmm. Perhaps, you and me are too far apart. Are you willing to gently work with me towards a common description of the desired political(?) direction of the European Union? "Common" is the important word here. And "work with" - cooperation.

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16:19 https://mastodon.uno/@Pierrette/112887198093001270 :

> @xChaos well for example what exactly is a good standard of living? is it measured by the GDP? is it related to individual possessions? can include a comprehensive public education system and a free health care of quality for every one or it has to be measured in terms of how many SUVs roam our constantly worsening highways? what it is is determined by what we collectively value IMHO

16:22 https://f.cz/@xChaos/112887211339798546 :

> @Pierrette of course, this is the psychology part...
>
> It would be nice to change the consumption patterns, but people also tend to dislike changes which they don't percieve as voluntary. Some people may be proud about the same thing, that other may percieve as huge sacrifice....

16:36 https://mastodon.uno/@Pierrette/112887267098340696 :

> @xChaos Of course! the main challenge is us! there have been civilizations in history that have failed because of their unwillingness to open their collective minds 😬 we are at an incredibly high level, technologically speaking, it's just up to us to make it work; this said, while I appreciate that "top-down" societies like the chinese seem better equipped to face our current problems I believe that it's just an optical illusion

16:38 https://mastodon.uno/@Pierrette/112887275939200140 :

> @xChaos a profound change like the one we're called to make can only be embraced, as you justly say voluntarily ( I'd even say gladly! ) and as a positive action, not a loss of something but a progress

@Pierrette@mastodon.uno Again, thank you for the boost and the fav and the posts 🙂 I take it that you and me agreed to gently work towards a common description of the desired political(?) direction of the European Union 🎉🍷🎆

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Bagarrosphere nějak nemaká, tak nevím, jestli se to podařilo odeslat.

Tak se to podařilo odeslat a navazuje:

https://mastodon.uno/@Pierrette/112887491048410462 :

> @abolitionniste of course I agree ! I'm just uncertain if my contribution really can be of any value🤭 you know I'm more aware of what I am not and what I do not want ........

https://mastodon.uno/@Pierrette/112887516848609704 :

> Non chiederci la parola che squadri da ogni lato
> l'animo nostro informe, e a lettere di fuoco
> lo dichiari e risplenda come un croco
> perduto in mezzo a un polveroso prato.
>
> Ah l'uomo che se ne va sicuro,
> agli altri ed a se stesso amico,
> e l'ombra sua non cura che la canicola
> stampa sopra uno scalcinato muro!
>
> Non domandarci la formula che mondi possa aprirti
> sì qualche storta sillaba e secca come un ramo.
> Codesto solo oggi possiamo dirti,
> ciò che non siamo, ciò che non vogliamo.

https://mastodon.uno/@Pierrette/112887524182136168 :

> Non chiederci la parola che squadri da ogni lato
> Ossi di Seppia -1943
> Eugenio Montale
> Nobel Laureate 1975

https://mastodon.uno/@thegib/112887603039245339 :

> since High School I adore this:
> "Codesto solo oggi possiamo dirti,
> ciò che non siamo, ciò che non vogliamo"

https://mastodon.uno/@Pierrette/112887613336802257 :

> @thegib ❤️

@Pierrette@mastodon.uno Super. Jsem šťastný, že jsme ustavili dvojici se společným cílem. Já si jsem jistý, že Tvůj podíl bude mít velkou hodnotu. A hlavně: nemusíme soutěžit, čí podíl bude mít jakou hodnotu 🙂

Už jsme psali o tom, že negativní vymezení nám jde lépe / hned / snadno. 'Ciò che non siamo, ciò che non vogliamo.' To je v pořádku. Od negativního vymezení bych směřoval k pozitivnímu.

@thegib@mastodon.uno Nechceš se k nám přidat?

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@Pierrette@mastodon.uno Kde jsme? Oba jsme signatáři deklarace "Evropská unie je můj domov" https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1381#p1381 #tg421100420 . A oba jsme signatáři unterwassserovy deklarace https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1375#p1375 . A máme společný cíl vypracovat společný popisi žádoucího politického(?) směřování Evropské unie.

Vlastně, unterwasserova deklarace by už mohla být naplněním toho cíle. Nicméně to ještě zvažujeme. V každém případě může být prototypem, vzorem, pilotním řešením prohlášení, které chceme vypracovat.

Už jsem psal https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1369#p1369 :

> Pro mě je důležité, že máme dvě deklarace, dvě úrovně. Deklarace "Evropská unie je můj domov" je obecnější. Vztahuju se ke všem obyvatelům a občanům Unie. I k Orbánovi. Druhá už je užší - náš unijní směr - politický směr - jakou Unii chceme.

Vidíš to taky takhle nějak? Chápeš proč dvě deklarace? Jednu považuju za hotovou, usazenou. Nad druhou budeme dumat.

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https://f.cz/@xChaos/112891152177869500 již citováno zde https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1407#p1407 #tg559260572 :

> Pro mě je @tymoty příliš velký teoretik... Řešením není přesvědčování již přesvědčených - řešením je přímá akce, hledání technických řešení, recyklace odpadu po naší spotřebě v novém kontextu, solarpunk....

https://mastodonczech.cz/@unterwasser/1 ... 9037909742 již citováno zde https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1407#p1407 #tg559260572 :

> Osobně spatřuji výhodu zdejšího "deklarování" a rozhovorů v tom, že mi pomáhají tříbit myšlenky a názory.

@unterwasser@mastodonczech.cz Děkuju za podporu. Je pro mě hodně důležitá 🙂

Já věřím, že to, co si myslíme, co cítíme, co říkáme, slyšíme, píšeme, čteme a toho všeho souvislosti, propojení, rezonance, soulad a skřípot je fyzikální realita, lidský cloud. A že stav téhlé fyzikální reality je docela důležitý i pro jiné fyzikální reality. Tříbení myšlenek a názorů je přímá akce - super důležité měnění super důležité části fyzikální reality, která má rozhodující vliv na svět, ve kterém žijeme.

Naprostá většina z nás, obyvatel a občanů Evropské unie, má jednotlivě naprosto zanedbatelný vliv na to, jaká Unie je a jaká bude. Zároveň to kolektivně všichni dohromady určujeme. Tzv. volby jsou důležitou, nicméně okrajovou záležitostí. Hlavní je naše každodenní chování a konání. To jací jsme. K tomu, aby nás hodně mohlo být v něčem podobných, aby nás hodně působilo podobným směrem, pomáhá vyslovování, shodování a opakování popisů a záměrů toho, jací jsme, jací chceme být, jaká je Evropská unie, jakou chceme Evropskou unii mít...

@Boerps@nrw.social @elfkam@mastodonczech.cz @fonecokid@c.im @Makovice@cztwitter.cz @Pierrette@mastodon.uno @reznym@mastodon.online @Unreed@mastodonczech.cz @unterwasser@mastodonczech.cz @Veza85UE@eupolicy.social @xChaos@f.cz

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Following up on 16 https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1511#p1511 #tg601749156 .

https://mastodon.uno/@Pierrette/112932257870257470 :

> I'd like so much a Union that would address the ecotechnological trasformation not ( only) with subsidies but with support and facilitation to grassroots movements, local communities and individual efforts by slashing redtapes, designing guidelines and economically favoring forms of cooperations like buyer's groups.

@Pierrette@mastodon.uno Yes.

That is exactly the kind of thinking I would like to do. And for me, it is important that our eventual description of the desired Union is very broad: 14 14 https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1453#p1453 :

> Something like a "party political program", but perhaps something much more general to allow within it the existence of different parties / vectors and some way of their competing and cooperating... we are to think of... a sufficiently broad colorful polyphonic coalition(??) when doing so; but not inclusive of all - not the will of the people - the will of [a] part of the people.

And I believe we should take, perhaps small, part of the energy we use for Mastodoning and work together mory systematically to create the description of the desired Union. Join me! 🙂

@bobojp@theblower.au @donar@f.cz @Pierrette@mastodon.uno @xChaos@f.cz

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Tymoty » 1.8.2024 11:53 https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1386#p1386 :

> ❓
>
> ... @Pierrette@mastodon.uno ...
>
> Je někdo z Vás... ochoten se mnou společně zlehka směřovat k tomu, abychom měli společný popis žádoucího politického(?) směřován Evropské unie?

Tymoty » 1.8.2024 11:57 https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1387#p1387 :

> ❓
>
> ... @Pierrette@mastodon.uno ...

[Is] any of you... willing to gently work with me towards a common description of the desired political(?) direction of the European Union?

1.8.2024 15:52-16:00 https://mastodon.uno/@Pierrette/112887092558535735 https://mastodon.uno/@Pierrette/112887113787572023 https://mastodon.uno/@Pierrette/112887126135543324 https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1393#p1393 :

> ... That's what is intriguing about Timoty's quest,that's a try to raise the awareness of the values that may define the goals toward which we're striving...
>
> ... Values are what can change our collective direction, because if we change our collective view of things then less consuming, less THINGS does not necessarily mean less quality of life, maybe the opposite. The shift has to occur in our minds
>
> ... the motivation to find solutions and the will to accept changes that are important...

Tymoty » 1.8.2024 16:14 https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1393#p1393 :

> @Pierrette@mastodon.uno Thank you too for the boost and fav. And for the posts. I hope I may taky it as you joining me at the quest.

1.8.2024 16:19-24 https://mastodon.uno/@Pierrette/112887198093001270 https://mastodon.uno/@Pierrette/112887267098340696 https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1395#p1395 :

> what exactly is a good standard of living? is it measured by the GDP? is it related to individual possessions? can include a comprehensive public education system and a free health care of quality for every one or it has to be measured in terms of how many SUVs roam our constantly worsening highways? what it is is determined by what we collectively value...
>
> ... the main challenge is us! there have been civilizations in history that have failed because of their unwillingness to open their collective minds 😬 we are at an incredibly high level, technologically speaking, it's just up to us to make it work...

Tymoty » 1.8.2024 17:19 https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1395#p1395 :

> @Pierrette@mastodon.uno ... thank you for the boost and the fav and the posts 🙂 I take it that you and me agreed to gently work towards a common description of the desired political(?) direction of the European Union 🎉🍷🎆

1.8.2024 17:33 https://mastodon.uno/@Pierrette/112887491048410462 https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1397#p1397 :

> @abolitionniste of course I agree !

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